Permaculture Blog

I searched for LD50 bromethalin. LD50 is the amount of toxin given to a group where 50% of the test animals die.  (L)ethal (D)ose 50

Take a group of 10 dogs and give them all concentration X .   Take another group of 10 dogs give them concentration Y.   Another group of 10 dogs get Z.  Concentration X kills 9 of the dogs .  Y kills 5 of the dogs.  Z kills 4 dogs.  18 dogs have died without medical intervention or support therapy (pain medication) to give us Lethal Dose 50 Dog = Y. And they do it for cats, and mice, and rats, and bobwhite quail, other birds, male dogs vs female dogs, ….

There were relatively few hits but here are excerpts from some.  No hits on aquatic or reptile. Which in some ways is a good thing at least those animals didn’t suffer and die. Why are these things approved with …. Sorry rhetorical question. I already know the answer it’s because the companies that produce and test this stuff are big moral Christian people who only have our best interest at heart.

http://toxnet.nlm.nih.gov/cgi-bin/sis/search/a?dbs+hsdb:@term+@DOCNO+6570

Ten random source male domestic short-hair cats, 2 to 6 yr old and 3.0-4.4 kg bw, were each given a single oral dose (1.5 mg/kg) of bromethalin (cat Nos. 1-5) or bait vehicle carrier (cat Nos. 6-10). Bromethalin-dosed cats developed a toxic syndrome characterized by ataxia, focal motor seizures, vocalization, decerebrate posture, decreased conscious proprioception, recumbency, depression, and semicoma. [Snip]… hypertrophied fibrous astrocytes, and hypertrophied oligodendrocytes were observed in the white matter of the cerebrum, cerebellum, brain stem, spinal cord, and optic nerve of all bromethalin-dosed cats.

 

Nine dogs given 6.25 mg bromethalin/kg po developed clinical signs and EEG abnormalities 15-58 hr postdosing. Predominant abnormal EEG changes included spike and spike-and-wave EEG patterns (66%), high voltage slow wave (HVSA, 50-150 microV, 1-6 Hz) activity (44%) photoconvulsive or photoparoxysmal irritative responses (44%), and marked voltage depression (dominant activity [Dorman DC et al; Vet Hum Toxicol 33 (1): 9-11 (1991)] **PEER REVIEWED**

 

LD50 for rats up to the 24th hr after swallowing the /EL614/ was 4.13 mg/kg, and it was 1.78 mg/kg at the 48th hr, and 1.32 mg/kg at the 72nd hr. Intoxication and death set in as the result of impaired function of almost all organs, which was explained by the lipidotropic action of the preparation. Particularly severe were the lesions (hemodynamic and degenerative) in the brain.

 

Dogs given a single oral dose of bromethalin at 6.25 mg/kg developed a toxic syndrome characterized by hyperexcitability, tremors, seizures, depression, and death within 15-63 hours after bromethalin admin. Gross lesions included mild cerebral edema (2/5) and mild pulmonary congestion (2/5). Histologic lesions included diffuse white matter spongiosis [Snip]…

 

In a second 90-day study, groups of 4 male and 4 female beagle dogs were orally dosed by gavage for 90 days at levels of 0, 5, 25, 125, or 200 ug/kg/day with bromethalin technical. Observations included daily clinical evaluations, ophthalmoscopy, body weight, food consumption, clinical pathology evaluations at weeks 6 and 13, necropsy, organ weights and histopathology. The NOEL is 25 g/kg/day. The LOEL is 125 g/kg/day based on spongy degeneration observed in nervous tissue components (cervical, thoracic, and lumbar spinal cord, brain stem, right and left optic nerves, frontal and median brain, pons, and cerebellum) in both sexes of dogs. At the high dose, 3 male dogs displayed the following neurotoxic signs before death or being sacrificed moribund: salivation and hypoactivity, followed by trembling, myoclonia, hyperesthesia, groaning, and decubitus. [Snip]…

 

LD50 Dog oral 4.8 mg/kg
[Krieger, R. (ed.). Handbook of Pesticide Toxicology. Volume 2, 2nd ed. 2001.

LD50 Cat oral 18 mg/kg
[Krieger, R. (ed.). Handbook of Pesticide Toxicology. Volume 2, 2nd ed. 2001.

LD50 Bobwhite quail oral 4.6-11.0 mg/kg /from table/
[USEPA; Reregistration Eligibility Decision Document – [Snip]…

I’m wondering if I can secede from the human race.

http://scvnews.com/2016/01/17/actions-have-consequences-commentary-by-dianne-erskine-hellrigel/

Everything you do either contributes to a healthy environment, or the devastation of the environment.

Take a hike and see discarded plastic bottles and wrappers along a trail in what should be the most pristine of environments. If you’ve seen this, did you pick it up?

This is your Earth, your California, your Santa Clarita. How do you want to live?

Thank you Dianne for your efforts.

Main Website at: www.PuraVidaAquatic.com

@vidaaquatic on X

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Best to you all.

PS. Please don’t try to digest this all in one sitting :-). You’ll probably get food poisoning! :-)

neem-oil/

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genetics and DNA/

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Past OurToxicNationalParks posts

Best to you all

Bob

Main Website at: www.PuraVidaAquatic.com

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brodifacoum

Brodifacoum is highly lethal to mammals and birds, and extremely lethal to fish. It is a highly cumulative poison, due to its high lipophilicity and extremely slow elimination.

Following are acute LD50 values for a variety of animals:

* rats (oral) 0.27 mg/kg b.w.[5]
* mice (oral) 0.40 mg/kg b.w.[5]
* rabbits (oral) 0.30 mg/kg b.w.[5]
* guinea-pigs (oral) 0.28 mg/kg b.w.[5]
* squirrels (oral) 0.13 mg/kg b.w.[6]
* cats (oral)[7] 0.25 mg/kg[8][5] — 25 mg/kg [9][10][11][12][5][13]
* dogs (oral) 0.25 — 3.6 mg/kg b.w.[5][8][9][10][11][12]
* birds LD50 values for various birds varies from about 1 mg/kg b.w. — 20 mg/kg b.w.[4]
* fish — LC50 for fish:
** trout (96 hours exposure) 0.04 ppm[14]
Given these extremely high toxicities

In a nutshell those new second generation Rodentcides are more toxic than the original product. They persist longer in animals and they are highly persistent in the environment. They are extremely toxic to fish and who knows what other aquatic creatures. How about the endangered Western pond turtle?

They were developed because rats have become somewhat resistant to the original warfarin products. And it was thought that from a marketing perspective that being able to market products as “single feeding” poisons would be more profitable. Commercial companies hired to control pests using poisons would have to monitor the bait stations less frequently and they would be able to make more money. As far as I can determine second generation Rodentcides are the primary products that are described in this manner.

And while they have been banned for retail sale in California they are still found in many homes, and can still be purchased and used commercially, agriculturally, and sold wholesale in California. One can go online and easily buy five pound tubs. So it is simply incorrect to believe that these products are no longer used in California.

In addition they are actually more toxic to a homeowners own cats and dogs than they are to the rat. Pet and livestock poisoning by these products is often discussed in Veterinary publications.

The rodentcides which can now be legally bought over the counter virtually anywhere in California likely contain Bromethalin:
Also from Wikipedia

Bromethalin is a rodenticide which poisons the central nervous system by uncoupling mitochondrial oxidative phosphorylation, which causes a decrease in adenosine triphosphate (ATP) synthesis. Decreased ATP ultimately results in increased intracranial pressure, which damages neuronal axons. This damage to the central nervous system can cause paralysis, convulsions, and death

And the animal will likely feel as though it is suffocating the whole time. How can people _do this_?

You will notice in the above documents that there is _no toxicity_ information for rat’s natural predators– reptiles.

So I googled rodenticides with ld50 for snakes or scientific name Reptilia (either before or after) excluding PDF files.

Your search – rodenticides “ld50 Reptilia” “ld50 snakes” “Reptilia ld50” “snakes ld50” -pdf – did not match any documents.

Nothing!?!?
Geez I wonder why there are virtually no toxicity studies on these important natural rodent predators.

And do you really think that that it is a good idea to allow the sale of these things with no idea how it works on a rodent’s natural predator.

Because if we kill off the natural predators we will have more rats….

There will thus be more of a market and more profit for the chemical companies….

… so it’s a good thing.

Do you think you could possibly consider not using these unsafe products….
Maybe?
Possibly?

Monsanto claims food manufacturers will pass the cost of mandatory GMO labeling on to consumers. Campbell’s says otherwise.

Source: Campbell’s Decision to Label GMOs Destroys Monsanto’s Main Argument Against Labeling

So Permaculture people let’s put our money where are mouth is. Soups labeled non-GMO will likely contain less herbecide and pesticide residue. And if we’ve got a food company willing to identify GMOs so much the better.

Plant Guild #6: Groundcover Plants

When Judie Lincer steps out of her La Mesa home in the morning, she steps into a thriving miniature wetland, complete with shorebirds and dragonflies.

Source: The great outdoors in her own backyard

This is a very beginning project, but is a great example of what I can do with a swimming pool. I kept their infrastructure intact and they can always go back. Or if the house needs to be sold, and a buyer comes in who isn’t as smart as they should be :-) it can be converted back in a heartbeat. That can’t be done with any other green pool technology.

They won’t because they love it. They wanted me to work with their friend who built some of the modules which are only now coming online.

In addition some spa chemicals had gotten in it that created some problems. But with only half a system running, and for only a couple of months at that, the pool has gone from completely turbid to where the fish are visible 3 ft down. With my whole system running it will clear up quickly.

In addition they just collected close to 2,000 gallons of rainwater.

How’s that 50 gallon rain barrel doing for _you_ :-)

Western Section of The Wildlife Society is holding its Annual Meeting Feb. 22-26, in Pomona, CA USA; see

tws-west.org/pomona2016/?page_id=25
Oh so cool so cool so cool. I go to the website.

Annual Meeting 2016 Schedule

(a few examples)

Welcome, Speakers, meetings, snacks, Mojave Desert Listed Small Mammals Symposium
Food, lunch, cookies, cocktail hour, or all the above (abrev. flcc)

Sierra Nevada Red Fox Working Group

(BTW the Sierra Nevada Red Fox is different than the invasive species from Europe.)

flcc
Mojave Ground Squirrel Technical Advisory Group

flcc
Challenges and Conflict in Vertebrate Predator Management

flcc
Wildlife Health & Disease Ecology

flcc
Effects of Drought and Water Management on Wildlife

flcc
California Bat Working Group

Yea bats! But I don’t see anything about wetland habitats.
[Find in page]
W……E……Tbuz
Tbuz
There are no words that even start with wet
Maybe marsh
M.,…..A…….Rbuz
Rbuz
Sigh. frog?
f…r….obuz
Sigh …
“Western Section of The Wildlife Society is holding its Annual Meeting”…. apparently without considering wetland habitats.

So I go to the Wildlife Society _national_ homepage wildlife.org and search “wetland”.

JOIN
RENEW
DONATE
LOGIN THE WILDLIFE SOCIETY
Search Results for Wetland

Natural Wetlands are First Choice for Egrets
November 24, 2015 [Snip] Louisiana and South Carolina, they still prefer …

first article of a total of 4. Wow 4! but nothing in this first one about California.

TWS Chapter Supports Wetlands Preservation
September 29, 2015
A sunset over the Quivira National Wildlife Refuge in Kansas. Image Credit: Ryan Moehring/USFWS, licensed by cc 2.0 The Kansas Chapter of The Wildlife Society has declared their support for the City of Wichita to build a new wetlands preservation park. While some of the land …

Great we’re going to try to build an old growth wetland. Which as I’ve said before is analogous to sticking a few redwood seedlings in the ground and calling it an old growth forest. But at least Kansas is doing _something_.

Exploring the Wetlands at Oak Hammock Marsh
July 16, 2015 The Oak Hammock Marsh Interpretive Centre Join The Wildlife Society’s field trip to Oak Hammock Marsh during the 2015 TWS Annual Conference. Learn more about the educational and professional networking …

Well at least they’ll take a field trip to an oak hammock. Sort of doubt there will be a lot of marsh attention.

TWS and Chapters Comment on Wetland Determinations
February 27, 2015
Scenic The Wildlife Society, in partnership with the Iowa, North Dakota, and South Dakota TWS Chapters, and several other conservation and sportsmen’s groups has signed …

Iowa, North Dakota, and South Dakota. Great, no California at all. And this is a national organization folks. I have got to give credit to Iowa North Dakota and South Dakota, but California is supposed to be tree huggers. OH!!! that is it. I guess there aren’t many trees in a marsh so it is okay to pave over the marshes in California because we are just here to hug the trees.

You thought I was critical of Friends of Madrona Marsh. If I was involved with wildlife.org I would be so effing embarrassed.

Yeaaaa, apparently they were 5 because I have mine in Ramona and these were in Riverside

The Center for Biological Diversity is pushing for the California Spotted Owl’s designation as endangered under the Endangered Species Act, following on the heels of the well-known bald eagle success story.

Source: Four bald eagle sightings: A template for saving the California Spotted Owl?

As the article indicates DDT was the primary reason for the bald eagles demise and American companies still manufacture and export DDT.[angry face]

agAnytime

Source: Bollgard II XtendFlex | Traits | Deltapine

So I read something about GMO cotton and decided to try to find out what they had done to it. It wasn’t easy. But it’s called Deltapine, and in a nutshell it means that they want to increase the use of these three herbicides:dicamba, glyphosate and glufosinate herbicides. I haven’t bothered to look all of these up but the second one is roundup. Back to your regularly scheduled ag-ad

​TRIPLE-STACKED HERBICIDE TOLERANCE

​​BOLLGARD II® XTENDFLEX®

Bollgard II® XtendFlex® is the first cotton technology with tolerance to dicamba, glyphosate and glufosinate herbicides.

Notice: Do not apply dicamba herbicides in-crop to Bollgard II® XtendFlex® cotton in 2015. It is a violation of federal and state law to make an in-crop application of any dicamba herbicide on Bollgard II XtendFlex cotton unless the product label specifically authorizes that use. You should not make and Monsanto does not authorize making an in-crop application of any dicamba herbicide to Bollgard II XtendFlex cotton in 2015.

This triple-stacked tolerance gives you three unique modes of action for fighting tough-to-control and resistant weeds.
​With more choices for herbicide combinations to use, and greater flexibility for when you can apply them – before, at and/or after planting – it helps you take your weed management system to the next level.
Stacked with Genuity® Bollgard II®, this trait provides the same insect protection you trust to be effective today, in addition to effective weed control.
Bollgard II® XtendFlex® cotton is just one part of the Roundup Ready® Xtend Crop System.

Permaculture people need to stop buying cotton products.

Sorry! but at least the synthetic fibers made out of oil aren’t designed to kill freaking everything.

And with the conservative attitude toward the government these days “don’t tell me what to do”, do you really think that putting a disclaimer on Monsanto’s website **the government prohibits the addtion of this product once the plants are already growing** will have any effect at all other than increase the number of farmers that do exactly this.

With friends like those who needs… Oh wait they’re not my friend they are a big companyperson.

Bob